请选择 进入手机版 | 继续访问电脑版

Bikepacking

 找回密码
 立即注册

扫一扫,访问微社区

搜索
查看: 467|回复: 13

【翻译转载】最好的旅行车,就是你已有的那台

[复制链接]

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
发表于 2019-2-15 14:37:49 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
The Best Bikepacking Bike is the One you Already Own: Part I

最好的旅行车,就是你已有的那台:第一部分

By: Ryan King On: December 29, 2016

作者:瑞恩 金-2016.12.29



As interest in bikepacking and off-road bicycle travel continues to grow, many bike makers are offering machines that claim to be optimized for the task. We should know, as Surly’s line is full of bikes like the ECR, Ogre, Troll and Karate Monkey that are ideal vehicles for pedal-powered exploration. This level of specialization in bicycles can be a good thing but it also leaves many would-be bikepackers on the sidelines because they think they need a whole new bicycle to participate. While a shiny new bike can certainly make things easier and provide good motivation to get out and ride, you may discover thatthe best bikepacking bike is the one you already own.

随着BIKEPACKING概念(BIKEPACKING其实和我们的轻量化旅行比较类似,手段有所区别,可以借鉴其理念)和越野自行车旅行的持续发展,很多自行车商都相继推出了一系列号称能够胜任的车型。比如Surly的产品线,如ECR,OGRE,TROLL以及KARATE MONKEY都是针对探险而生的单车。这一系列特殊设计的单车是好东西,但是也会误导很多还未入坑的,想要进行越野旅行的车友,认为只有这一类特殊车型才能胜任旅途。当然,买台全新的越野旅行车是再省事儿不过的了,也能给你良好的使用体验,但是,可能你会发现,其实,最好的越野旅行车,其实就是你已有的那台。(山地车在美国拥有很深厚的群众基础,几乎所有骑行爱好者都或多或少拥有某款山地车,或新或旧,这一点和现在大陆的情况非常类似,所以楼主认为此文章具有很好的参考价值)



With a few simple modifications or additions, any good-quality mountain bike can carry you and your gear into the backcountry. In this series of blog posts, we’ll guide you through the process and detail a few key points to consider when evaluating, upgrading and modifying your bike into a two-wheeled adventure steed that will take you places you never thought you could go.Especially since many key pieces of equipment   (bags, lights, etc.) won’t come with any new bike, modifying the bike you already own can be a much more cost-effective path of entry.
通过一些简单的改装或者加装某些零件,几乎任何一台优质的山地车都可以带着你和你的装备驶入荒野。在这个系列的博文里,我尽可能把关键的细节都讲清楚,怎样对老车做出准确评估,哪些零件需要升级和重新定义以适应旅行诉求。此外,即使新购一辆越野旅行车,相应的携行具(如车包,车灯什么的)也并不包含在内,所以重新定义你的老车,是最具性价比的入坑方式。





上一篇:【翻译转载】放弃弯把的9个原因
下一篇:开朗夫妻的夫妻开朗
回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 14:39:54 | 显示全部楼层
先把文章提到的车型贴个图:
SURLY ECR
76cb74ee3d6d55fbe73514e160224f4a22a4dde6.jpg

SURLY OGRE

6adbc450352ac65c90f604b4f6f2b21191138ae6.jpg

SURLY TROLL

9fa033178a82b90168e4aef47e8da9773812ef0c.jpg

SURLY KARATE MONKEY

525456f40ad162d9b71d00db1cdfa9ec8813cde6.jpg




回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 14:43:50 | 显示全部楼层
In this post, we’ll take a look at the key qualities that good bikepacking bikes share and see if your bike fits the bill. A comfortable, durable, mechanically-sound bicycle is critical. The consequences of an ill-timed breakdown or failure can be quite serious when venturing far from home, so these are very important considerations. Assuming you own a mountain bike of some kind, wheel that thing in here and let’s have a look.

我们一起来分析,一台越野旅行车应该具有哪些品质,而你的老车是否能达到这些个门槛。一台舒适的,结实耐用的,机械性能良好的车是至关重要的。很简单一点,要是在个鸟不拉屎的地方,你的车架不适时宜的断掉,或者出现其它不可修复的问题,就傻缺了,所以以上三点最为重要。要是你有台山地车,推出来瞅瞅,我们一起来看看是否合适。



Evaluating your Bike for Trail-Worthiness
评估你的老车是否适合越野

Before heading into the backcountry or sinking lots of money into expensive upgrades, you would be well advised to be sure your bike is up for the task. There is a certain standard of trail-worthiness that not all mountain bikes meet. This is mainly a question of reliability. Off-road riding is hard on equipment and many inexpensive, “entry-level” mountain bikes are built with more casual riding in mind.
在闯入荒野之前,或者说,在为改装或者升级而败家之前,请仔细分析你的老车是否值得修改。这里有一些并非所有山地车都可满足的门槛标准。总体上来说就是可靠性,越野骑行对零件的严格程度并非廉价的,入门级的,休闲骑行的山地车可以达到。

6adbc450352ac65c3006e4bbf6f2b21192138a57.jpg

两台符合诉求的山地车,原文作者拍摄



So, how do you know if your bike is trail worthy? If you purchased your bike at a bike shop and are already riding it regularly on singletrack with few mechanical issues you’re probably in good shape. If you bought your bike somewhere other than a specialty bicycle retailer your chances aren’t so hot. Bikes sold in many sporting goods and department stores are cheap for a reason and don’t typically hold up well when ridden often, especially off-road.
然后,问题来了,怎么来评判自己的车是否适合越野呢?如果你的车是在专业车店购买,而且骑过了一些常规越野线路,并没出现多少机械故障,那恭喜你的老车,基本达标了。而如果你的车是在非专业店购买,那可能不是那么乐观,很多综合运动品商店出售的整车,廉价并非没有道理,正常骑行都不是那么畅快,更别说是越野骑行了。(这里谈论的虽然是越野,但是理念同样适用于旅行--译者注)

59788618972bd407aaf65f3576899e510eb309a5.jpg

比如这类沃尔玛超市出售的(或者存话费送的之流--译者注)



However, even many top-quality mountain bikes don’t make great bikepacking bikes. So, let’s dig into some of the nuances that set a potential bikepacking rig apart from the rest. Your bike doesn’t have to meet all of these criteria to work well but you’ll be more likely to enjoy the experience if you have most of these boxes checked.
另外,即便是一些顶级山地车,也不是那么适合作为越野旅行单车的。那接下来我们再深入讨论一些细节之处,挖掘一些老车可能存在的越野旅行的潜力。你的老车也许不能满足所有的要求,但或多或少能分享到一些平时没那么注意的细枝末节。


回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 14:52:33 | 显示全部楼层
What Makes a Good Bikepacking Bike?

Comfortable Riding Position

怎样才是一台好的越野旅行车?

首先得有舒适的骑姿

98c9fc43ad4bd113d09043fa57afa40f4afb0571.jpg

两位车友愉快的骑行在爱达荷州的温泉山道上,看笑脸,应该是舒适的

This is perhaps the most important consideration that we’ll discuss but also the most potentially challenging to get right. When you’re on the bike for hours at a time for days in a row, any potential source of discomfort can lead to frustrating pain or a debilitating injury. Other than employing the help of a skilled bicycle fit professional, the only way to know if you’ll encounter comfort issues is to put in the hours riding your bike. If you’re preparing for bikepacking you’ll want to do plenty of preparatory rides anyway, so listen carefully to your body for signs of problems as you ramp up the miles. A comfortable saddle and handlebar in the proper position are key elements in this equation. We’ll get deeper into fit issues in future posts. Assuming that you have a properly sized frame that you can ride comfortably, let’s take a look at some of the nuts and bolts of your bike.
这可能是最重要的,最需要考虑的一个前提,也是潜在的最大一个挑战。如果你一天骑数小时,连续个几天,任何一个微小的不舒适都会因积累而放大,导致肌肉酸软甚至关节损伤。除了花钱找专业fitting之外,另一个评估的土办法就是骑,多骑,一天骑上几个小时,问题基本上都可以体现出来。不管怎样,越野旅行(或者旅行)之前,你都得进行一系列的准备训练,所以尊重你的身体反馈信号,有什么问题都得纳入考虑范畴。舒适的坐垫,以及合理的车把,包括车把的位置(这里涉及到把立长度,角度以及车把高度,把立前伸度和车把后撤度之类的--译者注)都是舒适方程式的关键元素。至于FITTING的问题,暂时留一下,现在先假设你的车架尺寸是适合你的,舒适的,我们再接着列出其它的一些要点。



Front Suspension or None at All
要不减震,要不硬怼

While full-suspension mountain bikes are becoming more common across all categories, they are often less than ideal for bikepacking on anything other than the roughest and most technical of routes. Suspension pivots and shock mounts take up valuable space in the front triangle, making frame bags difficult if not impossible to mount. All those moving parts also require regular maintenance and are often impossible to service in the field. You’d rather not be a hundred miles from the nearest bike shop when your rear shock blows a seal and stops holding air.
全减震软尾的山地车已经非常的普及了,但是相比其它条件来说,减震并非是最关键的环节,除非是极端而技术型的路线。而软尾转点和后胆,占用了不少前三角空间,这会让三角包相当的尴尬,如果不是路线必需,还是可以不考虑。而且这些复杂机械也需要定时不定时的保养,在野外也几乎没办法搞大保健。你绝对不希望在野外后胆爆了油封而漏气,而最近一个能维修的车店又远在几百公里外。

ddede61349540923938a9cb69f58d109b1de49f7.jpg

还是爱达荷州的温泉山径

A suspension fork can be valuable if your route includes a good deal of rough terrain but can be overkill for routes consisting mainly of dirt roads or smoother trails. Much like rear suspension, a suspension fork adds weight and complexity, requires regular maintenance and can be a major problem if it fails. While rigid mountain bikes have become a relative rarity the simplicity they offer is appealing. If your bike is already equipped with a rigid fork you may be in luck!

对于那种包含了很多复杂地貌的路线来说,前减震叉还是非常具有价值的,但如果只是土石路或者更平滑的小径来说,前减震叉还是挺累人的。与后胆同理,前减震叉也会增加总量和机械复杂度,需要定时不定时的保养,而且也有可能因为坏掉而影响旅行结果。而山地硬叉日渐稀有之后,人们才想起它的好--简单质朴。要是你的老车碰巧也是装配的硬叉,那恭喜好运....


The choice to ride front and/or rear suspension will be dictated by your bike, route, personal preference and budget. If your bike does have suspension, be sure it is in top condition before heading out on a long trip.
当然,前减震和/或后减震或者不要减震,是取决于你的单车本身,路线需求,个人喜好以及预算的。如果你的车本就配备了减震系统,那么在启程之前,务必保证它们都处于良好的工作状态。


回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 15:00:15 | 显示全部楼层
Big Wheels, Wide Tires

大轮,肥胎
There are many good reasons that 29ers have taken over the mountain bike market in recent years. The bigger footprint, increased air volume and shallower angle of attack offered by wide 29″ tires deliver excellent traction and improve the bike’s ability to roll easily over larger obstacles. These attributes are especially helpful when the bike is loaded down, less maneuverable and harder to unweight over bumps. However, don’t despair if your bike has 26″ wheels or is one of the newer crop sporting 650b/27.5″ hoops. Wheel size won’t make or break your experience out on the trail but larger wheels certainly offer appealing comfort and performance benefits.
近些年,大轮径29er在山地车端口日渐流行,得益于它的多个优点---更大的轮周,更大的气容量以及更浅的攻角,这些属性提供了更好的抓地性和通过性,特别是载重车应对颠簸的时候,有更好的减震性。这里并不是要diss 26er和27.5er,轮径并不代表一切,经验和技能更为重要,只是说大一些的轮径确实能提供一些舒适和优势。

0153f4f9d72a6059d5a103d22534349b023bba26.jpg


Regardless of wheel size, you can do yourself a big favor by using the widest, highest volume tires your frame can safely accommodate. Wide tires will provide a smoother ride, cushion your bike, load and body from bumps and provide improved traction. We’ll talk more about tires in a future post, so stay tuned for that.
轮径是一方面,如果没法满足,那就先不管,你可以因地制宜,换对你车架前叉能支持的最粗的,气容量最大的胎。肥胎能提供平顺的骑感,在颠簸路段上,就如给你的单车,行李以及身体铺上软垫,同时还有更好的抓地性。有关胎的问题我们以后再更深入谈论.

da4f4e2762d0f7035341421405fa513d2497c5e0.jpg








回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 15:05:55 | 显示全部楼层
Quality Components

质量合格的零件

For better or worse, the price of an “entry level” mountain bike is incredibly low these days. This is certainly a good thing for many riders as the cost of getting into cycling is lower than perhaps ever before. However, those “entry level” bikes reach their low price points by cutting corners somewhere. One common place for this cost-trimming is in the bike’s wheels.

不论好坏,近些年来,入门级山地车的价格是前无古人,难以置信的低廉,也许这是个好事,可以让更多持币观望的人群能毅然进入骑行界。但是,这些入门级山地车之所以价廉,无非是靠配置短板来削减成本的,而常见的短板,就是轮组。

Bicycle wheels endure tremendous forces, especially when carrying heavy loads over rough terrain. Low-quality wheels that break spokes, bend axles, dent easily and won’t stay true are a serious liability. You’ll want to be certain that your wheels are built on sturdy, double-wall rims with quality hubs and spokes to avoid problems.   As shown in the cross-section diagrams below, double-wall rims feature a box section design that adds significant strength over the less-expensive single-wall design.

单车轮组是要承受巨大的冲击力的,特别是重载通过崎岖地貌。劣质的轮组,容易断条,弯轴,导致偏摆跳,都是严重的麻烦。你需要的轮组,最好是用坚固的双层优质车圈,优质的花鼓和辐条编造以避免麻烦(当然,好的技师也至关重要--译者注)。如下列两张截面图所示,相较于廉价些的单层车圈,双层车圈截面呈现出来的结构更为坚固(有请水博士来谈谈结构力学,这方面我不专业--译者注)。

Snap1.jpg     a24393096b63f624b629edcb8a44ebf81b4ca35b.jpg


On the subject of hubs, most newer bikes are equipped with a “freehub” drive system rather than the older “freewheel” style.   Bent or broken axles were common with “freewheel” rear hubs on mountain bikes because of the long section of axle protruding past the drive-side bearing.   If you have a rear wheel using a threaded-on freewheel you’d be wise to consider an upgraded wheelset before loading the bike down.
花鼓方面,现代车装配的一般都是卡式飞轮(塔基千金)而非老式的旋式飞轮(飞轮千金)。而山地车弯轴情况大多发生在后者身上,因为驱动侧的轴杆长端失去了轴承保护(轴承轴承,就是要承受轴受到的冲击)。如果你的老车是用的旋式飞轮,无论出于何种原因(安全也好,速别也好),都建议换为现代的卡式飞轮花鼓。

896fe595d143ad4bacac95088f025aafa60f06d0.jpg

如上图,左边为旋式飞轮及旋式花鼓,右为卡式花鼓和卡式飞轮



Other than wheels, you don’t really have too much to worry about. Even inexpensive brakes, shifters and drivetrain parts are surprisingly reliable and rarely fail when properly maintained. Higher-end parts will be lighter, more precise, offer performance benefits and are sometimes more durable but are not required.
However, it is vital that all of your components are well maintained, not excessively worn and in good working order. It is wise to check and replace (if needed) your chain, cables/hydraulic fluid, brake pads, etc before heading for the hills to avoid problems on the trail.   Many trip-ending mechanicals are a result of poor maintenance and should be easily avoidable.
轮组之外,真心再没什么过于需要担心的环节了。哪怕是便宜些的刹车,变速杆,传动系统都出奇的耐用,而且很少故障,前提是质量靠谱,装配得当。高端的,顶级的零件,无非是更轻,更精准,更良好的表现,有时候甚至是更高的但并非必需的耐用性。
当然,零件的保养也是至关重要的,保持良好的状态而不是过度磨损。上山上路之前,检查备用链条,刹车线/油,刹车皮/来令片等是绝对明智的。荒野之外,皆有可能,足够的小准备,能规避低级失误导致的大问题。
综上所述,大小保健,平时都应该有...




回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-15 15:07:27 | 显示全部楼层
Metal Frame
金属车架

Carbon fiber is everywhere in the bicycle industry. Carbon frames and components are showing up at surprisingly low price points and have (mostly) shaken off their reputation for fragility and premature failure. Modern carbon bikes and parts from reputable manufacturers are of very high quality and have proven reliable in demanding conditions. Many also offer extra protection in the form of tough, durable finishes, rock guards and the like.However, you’d still be wise to take extra care when bikepacking with a carbon frame. The combination of additional weight, frame bag straps, accumulated dirt, abrasion and vibration – in addition to normal hazards such as sharp rocks, severe crashes, etc – can cause serious damage to frame tubes of any kind but the problem can develop faster and have more severe consequences with carbon tubes.A good carbon bike can be a potent off-road weapon – especially for those looking to travel fast and light – but metal bikes will be more worry-free and probably longer-lived.
碳纤维已经遍布自行车工业界,无论是碳纤维车架还是碳纤维零件都能做到惊人的相对低价位,而且也大部分厂家也摆脱了碳纤维制品给人的脆弱印象。现代大厂出产的碳纤维车架和零件都能达到高标准的质量和可靠性,有的甚至通过额外的涂层和贴膜之类的来提供额外的保护。尽管如此,当你越野旅行的时候,还是需要对碳纤维车架额外的呵护。满载的车架包带,混上砂石,反复震动,外加摩擦,对车架来说绝对具有滴水穿石的功效,常规磨损之外,还有岩石剐蹭,严重摔车等等,都能导致车架管材损坏,而对于碳纤维车架来说,以上所述状况会尤为严重。高质量的碳纤维车是相当犀利的越野武器--尤其对那些对速度和轻量有要求的车手,但是金属车架相对来说更为省心,也可能更为长寿。

c1d38dec08fa513d8d44a416306d55fbb0fbd9ed.jpg
奥怀希戈壁路线四人行,都是金属车架

On the other hand, steel or aluminum bikes may suffer damage to their finish from the conditions presented by bikepacking but will rarely sustain serious damage to the tubes themselves. Regular cleaning and inspection is still important but is not as serious a concern as with carbon tubes. Though expensive, titanium may be an ideal material for bikepacking bikes due to its exceptional hardness and resistance to scratching or abrasion.
换句话说,钢质或者铝合金质的车架,越野旅行中,其涂装也会遭受磨损,但是并不会对管材本身产生质的损坏。家常清洁打理还是有必要,但是不像碳纤维车架那么龟毛。当然,昂贵的钛合金也许是个不错的选择,因为其杰出的材质硬度,几乎是无视剐蹭和摩擦的。
回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-20 15:19:54 | 显示全部楼层
接着翻译第二部分了:

Part II: Luggage

第二部分:行李


By now, hopefully you’ve had time to digest our introductory post and are ready to start equipping your mountain bike for bikepacking!   The best bike in the world won’t do you much good if you can’t carry the things you need to survive and thrive when you’re out on the trail for days at a time, so lets dig into the world of luggage for carrying those essentials.   In this post, we’ll go over the various brands and styles of bikepacking bags we carry at Bike Touring News and help you decide which will fit your bike and needs.

至此,希望大家对越野旅行车都有了一定的思维转变,也摩拳擦掌准备开干了。然而不管车多好多高端多顶级,要是不能携带行李也只能空流泪,特别是要离家几天,露宿在外的时候。那我们接下来在深入行李的世界看看怎样携带那些必须物品。这篇博文里,我们会谈及一些BIKEPACKING携行具的品牌以及风格,希望能对大家的原有思维有所补充。

b0a2b425bc315c60ae65262680b1cb134b5477e7.jpg


回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-20 15:21:51 | 显示全部楼层
Bike Touring News carries bikepacking gear from Revelate Designs, Apidura and Ortlieb, along with a handful of others.   There are many other makers of quality gear out there but most are cottage industries making bags on a small scale for individual customers.   There is a time and place where custom or DIY bags make sense but all three of these brands offer top-quality gear at reasonable prices without a long waiting list.   They each have their own approach and offer products optimized for certain conditions.   We’ll cover the range and help you make sense of it all.


“单车旅行志”(这里应该是作者所属机构--译者注)拥有Revelate Designs, Apidura和Ortlieb以及其它一些品牌的Bikepacking携行产品。当然,此外还有其它很多家庭作坊式的品牌为小众群体提供订制服务,不管订制也好,自己DIY也好,都能获取所需,但是前面谈及的三个高质量品牌,价格合理(对老外而言吧),无需长时间等待。它们各具风格,针对不同诉求也有自己的一套产品组合方案。我们接下来逐一讨论,以便各位了解。(近两年国内也开始有生产BIKEPACKING包具的厂家,虽然产品仍有诸多缺点,但是相信经过一段时间发展,产品也会逐渐完善,拭目以待--译者注)



e2a76e166d224f4a12df38da04f790529922d115.jpg


回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

268

帖子

602

积分

管理员

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
602
 楼主| 发表于 2019-2-20 15:24:06 | 显示全部楼层
The Bikepacking Triad

Bikepacking三大件

The three cornerstones of any bikepacking setup are pretty clearly established.   They are the Frame Bag, Handlebar Pack and Seat Pack.   It is pretty easy to imagine where each one goes, right?   Good.   There are also various add-on or accessory bags to extend carrying capacity.   We’ll go over those as well.   Let’s get into it!


Bikepacking的三大设置基石已经基本建立,也就是---车架包,车把包和座管包。顾名思义,相信这些名称已经清楚的说明了它们的安放位置对吧?好,同时,也有一系列附件包来对这三大件进行扩容。那我们先说三大件吧。



9d4d5f8b4710b91273c84737cefdfc039345224e.jpg



Frame bag
车架包

The frame bag takes advantage of the space inside your frame’s front triangle.   Because of its central location, this is an ideal place to carry heavier items like your cookset, food, tools and spares, water transport and filtration supplies, first aid kit, etc.   Most frame bags feature a top zipper located just below the top tube of your frame, so they also are well-suited for carrying items you’ll need easy access to while in motion such as ride food, spare layers, camera, phone, maps, sunglasses, fermented/distilled beverages, etc.   All but the very smallest can accommodate a 2 or 3-liter hydration bladder and have a built-in port for the drinking hose to exit.   Strap one on and leave the hydration pack behind!


车架包(三角包)是利用了车架前三角内部的空间来安放。因为其位置居中,这个位置一般用来放置小而比重大的物件,诸如:炊具,食品,工具,备件以及净水设备,急救包等等。大部分车架包设计为上部(上管下方不远处)拉链开合取放,因此这个部分也适合存放一些常取放的物件比如小零食,轻便的保暖衣物,小相机,手机,地图,太阳镜以及酒水饮料等。除了很小的之外,大部分的车架包也可以存放2-3升的储水袋,甚至还有预留的饮水管出口,有了这个,可以考虑不用背水袋包了。
(有关车架包,可能是三大件里面最容易DIY的部分,此前已翻译另一帖子说明流程,在此不赘述,错过直播的朋友们,请拿起手中的洛阳铲--译者注)




回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

小黑屋|手机版|Archiver|Bikepacking.cn ( 京ICP备17020247号-1 )

GMT+8, 2019-7-17 21:17 , Processed in 0.094464 second(s), 24 queries .

Powered by Discuz! X3.4

© 2001-2017 Comsenz Inc.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表